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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
   |
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:20:00 -
[1]
Oveur 9/10/07:
Drones Revisited
"About time" is probably the first thing that comes to mind. Not only are we improving the interface, we're working on the logic behind them. This should hopefully lead to them being more consistent in control and abolish their free will. Assist and Guard are new commands coming in, we're getting lots of new named drones and we're adding a new constraint on drones, bandwidth. With this, bandwidth determines the number of drones you can control, allowing the dronebay to be considerably increased on drone ships, accommodating more waves or variety. Ubar? Ja!
Edit note: Bandwidth referenced here is not in reference to your internet connection. It's to un-nerf specialized drone ships and allow more differentation between ships. There is also specific Drone Region content in this update.
Wowsers...Some pretty amazing 'un-nerfing' going on here:
1. Ishkur loses ability to field Med drones in its mix of 5
2. Myrmidon loses ability to field 5 Heavy drones
3. Eos loses ability to field 5 Heavy drones
4. Eos, Ishkur & and others reduced dronebay size
4. Eos loses 2 turrets just to kick it while it is down
Ubar? Ja! - NO ya big eejit. 
Bandwidth brings a wider differentiation between ships? - No. It leaves the Ishtar and Dominix as te only 'viable' drone ships. Variety just got chopped along with our dronebays.
When the changes go live you (Nozh, Oveur, Fendhal and the rest of the funambulist squad) will have succeeded in contradicting yourselves, and ruining and devaluing the time spent specialising by all people who use Drones as a primary weapon. Great job communicating with the community.
Thanks. 
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:38:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: galadran
Where are you getting the info for points 1-4 from?
Please tell me its not forums, please!
There's a nice thread here discussing the Test Environment (Singularity) where CCP Atropos puts the boot into the Eos
The rest is hearsay, but my understanding is that the code freeze was happening this week so I'm guessing the 'balancing' changes that have been applied to Singularity will make it into the game. Correct me if I'm wrong oh Great ones...
I personally couldn't get onto Singularity since there appeared to be no way to patch from the current TQ build through all the stages to the current SiSi build. Though I am a numpty at such stuff.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 10:03:00 -
[3]
Will posting whines get a response? No.
Unless it keeps getting bumped (so loathingly that is what this is). I'm going to bump this thread daily until there's some Dev brave enough to explain all these nerfs to Gallente drone ships in light of the highlighted text by Oveur.
I'm quite prepared to be loathed by the Devs for what I feel is a justified question.
So Bring it on - Like a Matthew Kelly contestant I'm going for...going for... GOLD!!
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 10:19:00 -
[4]
To the chap who suggests we do bad things to the Dev and that this is a 'Threadnaught' style attack (haha very funny sarcasm  ) - Muppet.
I think it is a fairly valid question to ask for a summary and roundup of the changes along with an explaination of why, in light of the comments made by Oveur we see several drone ships being nerfed..?
They've created a great game - I love it and wont stop playing until I'm dead or it is...I'm just very disappointed to see CCP communicate/announce one thing then seemingly act the opposite way without any justification/communication with the community about it. Things like that make you question your loyalty to this game.
So again - bumping this thread for some Dev communication.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.28 11:22:00 -
[5]
Busy time for CCP I'm sure, but still no explanation here or elsewhere on the Drone boat nerf...so up we go...
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 12:16:00 -
[6]
Yep..it is back. Still no gold.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.30 09:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 30/10/2007 09:59:23
Why no official comment on Drone changes yet?
4
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4
....3
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....1
Yes...it is Going for Gold with Matthew Kelly. Post is currently in the 4 zone.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.31 11:16:00 -
[8]
If I was going to the Fanfest I'd like to grab Oveur and shake him until he answered this....or woke up from his drunken stupor.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.01 11:12:00 -
[9]
Yep - losing millions of ISK in drones is GREAT FUN!
Another thing probably left out of the 'oversized' drones = imbalanced equation is the fact that a lot of these 'oversized weapons systems' get destroyed or left on the battlefield at the end of a fight...Even if you draw and retreat you often 'lose' as a drone ship pilot. How often does that happen with your turrets/bays?
Still waiting for a Dev comment/explaination of these nerfs ...Or will they be stealth nerf classics???
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 12:14:00 -
[10]
Here we go again...2 years of posting and never had a dev response - perhaps I should sugar-coat everything?
Please oh please you sweet Gods of Eve, tell us why you're fecking over Gallente drone ships?
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:35:00 -
[11]
This topic will not go away.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.04 04:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Siege
Just because they didn't respond in THIS thread, doesn't mean they didn't respond.
...
Usually the Game Development forum is the place to find the game developers responding to questions regarding game development.
Interesting comment. I started this thread to show previous communications by the game developers, give feedback on the current changes (which are not in line with the original comments) and to try to stimulate further communication either here or elsewhere from the developers.
If you'd read my earlier posts, you'd hopefully realise all I want is a complete explanation (preferably a blog) of the bandwidth changes to appear SOMEWHERE. I'd be happy to read it ANYWHERE...But this is the problem - it just isn't there on the forum (yet) in any collected way.
I actually linked the last 'insightful' related Dev comment earlier in this thread, which only partly explained the Eos' battering to be simply 'bringing the DPS in line with other race ships of in its role'.
The last blog of Drone changes relating to Bandwidth was by Oveur as highlighted originally in the thread and I have scanned the 20-odd pages in the Game Development forum, several other areas of the forums too and saw only this related comment in Game Development regarding Bandwidth:
23/10 - CCP Chronitis
We are still absorbing feedback and debating what route we want to go with the carrier fixes. We have not yet applied the effect modifiers on the base attributes to the carriers until we know what direction we want to go. The only thing on sisi currently is the base drone bandwidth attribute of all ships.
Please remember that sisi gets updated almost daily now and until we notify you that the changes are ready for testing, assume they are unfinished and try not to speculate or jump to conclusions until we blog about the overall goal and the finalised changes being made (though it is completely natural to do so, it will lead to premature and unfounded gossip as is the nature of the forums).
I agree with Chronitis on the second paragraph and without jumping to conclusions or making too much 'premature and unfounded gossip' .... Bandwidth as it looks currently is a stealth nerf to Gallente but please show me a new blog explaining otherwise... 
Before they write that I'd just like to remind the Devs of Oveurs original comments as highlighted in my original post that describe boosts and 'un-nerfs to droneboats'. I'd also like them to take a look at what is on the test server currently, THEN I'd like them to give us that blog that magically explains to us how 'Bandwidth un-nerfs droneboats' when most droneboats (at least the Gallente ones, who rely on their drones the most) are (as currently showing on SiSi) being NERFed as has already been pointed out.
Is it too much to ask for a complete, collected communication from those responsible regarding these changes?
Tell me to be patient if you like.
Tell me the blog is in the post.
...but please don't tell me the current bandwidth related changes (on SiSi) are a boost or 'un-nerf' to Drone ships and will go live without expecting serious criticism (at least from me).
Cheers.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.04 16:10:00 -
[13]
/removes soapbox
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 09:24:00 -
[14]
I just hope someone raised this at Fanfest.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:02:00 -
[15]
Topic will keep being bumped until we get the full explaination of bandwidth aka gallente droneboat nerfs.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.07 13:23:00 -
[16]
CCP Hammer - Ages ago...
- Originally by: HllaxiuEdited by: Hllaxiu on 11/09/2007 01:09:27
"Basically its a balancing factor for the Arbitrator Hull, Vexor, and Myrmidon. Lets say you only want these two ships to field medium drones. That means that you can realistically have a maximum drone bay of 75m3. This leaves no room for spares - dedicated heavy drone carriers however do get room for spares. If 50m3 of drone bandwidth is assigned to the above ships, their drone bays can be increased without turning them into heavy drone carriers (Ishtar, Dominix).
The Mymridon and Eos are the ships, if any, to receive a nerf out of this change - I expect the nonIshtar cruiser based drone boats to be boosted quite a bit with this change, as they will be able to carry spares now. This will also allow the Myrmidon to be rebalanced against medium drones. Good thing in my opinion.
I realize that the blog said "number of drones" but I'm betting that this is how things are going to end up, one way or another (perhaps a conversion factor between light/medium/heavy drones)."
This is fairly spot on. Expect a dev blog about this from the relevant dev before the patch hits. We're not doing this to try and nerf people.
Lots of feedback on drone UI and operation from Devs today in a good thread by an IAC chap. I also spotted this old comment again so I'm adding it here for posterity.
The fact that the Hammer quotes a player to explain drone bandwidth and refers to a 'forthcoming' blog really doesn't help too much to explian why they ARE nerfing Gallente hard.
Perhaps boosting the tracking a bit of rails would stop the perceived 'imbalanced' DPS of blaster/oversize drone combination? Or offering e-war drone bonuses to certain drone ships like a 50% webber drone speed bonus for example instead of drone damage/tank bonus.
There were and ARE a lot of options they could use for 'balancing' that INCREASED the variety to differentiate between drone ships, but instead just hitting drone ships with a NERF from bandwidth is the way they choose - and for reasons we don't even know properly since they STILL have not blogged about it.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.08 02:14:00 -
[17]
CCP Nozh - yesterday
Generally I'd never reply to a post like this, since it's basically a huge rant, but I'll spare you some of my words.
The point of the bandwidth change was to be able to balance drone boats better, especially smaller class ships.
These are the changes we've done with bandwidth, all other ships have the same bandwidth as their dronebay:
* Ishkur: 25Mbit/s bandwidth, 25m3 + 5m3/level drone bay
* Vexor: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 100m3 dronebay
* Ishtar: 125Mbit/s bandwidth, no change in dronebay
* Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim: 50 Mbit/s bandwidth, 150m3 dronebay
* Myrmidon: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 150m3 dronebay
* Eos: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 150m3 + 15m3/level dronebay
You can see the trend here really, we've decreased damage output of some of the more "overpowered" ships but instead increased their ability to sustain their damage output.
PS. I'm never replying to a thread like this again. Keep them constructive and you might receive some feedback
So here we have it. An explaination at last - NERFing ships that were 'overpowered'.
To be honest I'm lost for words. All I'll say is that I find this an insult to all those people who have put weeks and weeks of training into drones as primary weapons to see them overnight being turned into support weapons on everything but the Ishtar and Dominix. Variety for the Gallente just took a heavy beating.
I'm most of all disappointed in that we have one dev saying this is not intended to be a nerf, and another adament that it is 'balancing' necessary to stop overpowered ships, which we all know means NERF.
My opinion: CCP get it wrong again with balancing again. Rather than address the root problems of the primary 'drone' race by keeping alive or even extending the possibilities with drone ships, they instead homogenize the races further with a set of knee-jerk style nerfs.
I'll stop bumping this thread now as frankly a Dev blog can't salvage this sorry situation. 
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
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